Brought to you by the Depression Is Real Coalition, The Down & Up Show is dedicated to the reality of depression. Our hosts will talk with some of the world's top experts on depression, as well as people who have been impacted by this illness. The reality of depression is that it is a debilitating and potentially deadly medical condition that affects more than 15 million Americans every year. The other reality of depression is that there is hope.

Down & Up Show #21: Supporting Family Members with Depression

The Down and Up Show on Depressionisreal.org. A talk show dedicated entirely to the subject of depression and the reality that there is hope for people living with this disease. Now your host Terrie Williams.

TERRIE WILLIAMS INTRO:
Welcome to the Down and Up Show on Depressionisreal.org. I'm Terrie Williams your guest host filling in for Dr. Ellen Frank. Today we'll be talking with Karen McGravy-Gajera of the National Alliance on Mental Illness or as we commonly call it NAMI. Karen is a teacher of Family to Family, a free 12 week NAMI course for family care givers of individuals with severe mental illnesses.

She recently became certified to train the teachers who run the course as well. This September will be her fourth year as a teacher in the Family to Family program. Today we'll speak with Karen about the important role that family members play when a loved one is grappling with depression. It's great to speak with you today Karen, welcome.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Thank you very much, great to be here.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Can you tell us a little bit about the Family to Family program and why you got involved?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Sure. The Family to Family program as you said is a free 12 week program. It is peer run so I am a family member of someone with a mental illness and I teach other care givers, loved ones about mental illness to them.

It's a free course. It usually meets once a week and it goes on for 12 weeks. They teach so many things; problem solving and skills that you can use in every day life and not necessarily with mental illness. I got involved in it when my teenage son was diagnosed with schizophrenia. And I just, you know, your world kind of falls apart.

I learned about it, took the course and after getting so much out of it for everything in my life, I decided to become a Family to Family teacher. I've been doing that now, I'm coming on my fourth year. And last years I wanted to do even more. So I went away for the training to become a trainer of teachers to get more people out there to do it because it's invaluable.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
You feel on some levels that the experience É how's your son doing, by the way?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
He's doing the same, good days, bad days.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
I see. So do you feel on some level that you were able to turn what had been a really devastating experience for you into something just really life changing for you?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Oh, definitely.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
You know I kind of look at sometimes situations like this as that blessings have a way of disguising themselves.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Yes, and actually it helped me realize my depression taking that course. And I can see all the things in that course were in me.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
I see.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Can you tell us how your depression once you realized it, how it affected your relationship with your family?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
I know that my depression started a lot younger. I went through a divorce and things were just awful. And my family, particularly my mother which she would hate I'd say this, but just didn't get it, it was more of that just shake out of it, just you know get going, get moving. Do things that you need to do.

And I just, I went deeper and deeper into it. And I went to therapy and I started to be a little better, but I was never always 100 percent better. And then after taking that Family to Family course and I realized that this was me, I wasn't (unint.) it, I was always so irritable at my kids and I hated doing that to them. And here I am NAMI member, teaching this course and I'm like I need to go to see somebody.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yes.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
So I actually made an appointment and I got on medication and I was lucky I had a doctor that knew my brother had suffered from depression and he had told me one time that he was on a certain medication. So my doctor says well, let's try the gene rule, and he gave me that and in two weeks I was awake, I was alive again. It wasn't just, when I was depressed it's like I'm empty inside or dead inside.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yes.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
It's not really sadness, it's just nothingness. And I actually, I realized I felt so much better than I have most of my life. So I think I had depression for a long, long time and never realized what was wrong with me until it was better.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
I think that's one of the reasons why our work is important and what Depression is Real Coalition is doing is really, because I think that so many people are just silently suffering, because it hasn't been named for them.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Right.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
You know they don't know what it looks like, what it sounds like, and what it feels like. And so your work is really critical. What would you say has been your family's reaction to you're being diagnosed with depression or did you speak with them about seeing a therapist and was there any kind of flack as it were?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Actually there was none, because when I took that first Family to Family course I took it with my mother.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Oh. And she was open?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
She was there to support me with my son and in the process realized really what mental illness is all about. And she kept telling me you need to go see somebody, you need to go see somebody. And finally when I did make that call she's been very good about it. I mean, we'll go away for the weekend and she'll ask me do you have your medication? Did you bring your medication?

So those kinds of things are important to her now. And family support has got to be one of the most important things there is; you need to know someone else is there, even if they're not suffering, you need to know somebody cares that if you end your life they'll hurt. I mean, the only reason that I would never commit suicide is because of family, because of my kids.

And I've never É I've gotten to that point where I'd like to, but that would be the reason I had always stopped.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Was?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
To know that they care really makes a difference.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yes, you're so right. I know with my own experience with depression I think in my darkest moments I wasn't suicidal, but there were many days that I didn't want to be here and it was because of family that I just couldn't have seen myself doing anything.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Right.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
So could you speak just a little bit more about how, just how important family support is to people with depression?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
You need to be there. I mean, you need to be able to look at them through their eyes and not what you hear or what somebody's told you, they can't snap out of it. They need support and they need to be accepted for who they are. And gently, to let them know you're there and possibly gently prod them on the road to recovery.

But I think empathizing with them is a key role, to be able to see what they, feel what they're going through.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Okay. It sounds like a really incredible program. I was going to also ask you about how the program counsels you know siblings and parents to deal with their loved one's depression. I think you've given us some É

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Communication is a big one, because family members, specifically parents are going to be yelling at the kid, get up, you got to É and they think that motion is going to help them to get out there and get the job, they'll be all better, so to learn to communicate and to learn to empathize with what's going on. So learning to supports them and even to take the time out to support themselves.

I mean, you can't be all burned out and help somebody else. You need to take time out and help yourself. To not put them down, to go to Family to Family, programs like that that really help you get a grasp on it. And you'll meet other people with the same kind of issues as you. And a lot of times, even during my class they have break and I can hear them saying well, I tried this and this really helped.

So you know to keep your mouth open and to listen when you need to are very important things I would say. That's what a lot of what Family to Family teaches. (unint.)

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
I'm sorry, say that again?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
I was going to say because we have different courses in it. We have like É

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Can you tell us a little bit about those?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Sure. We have an empathy class. We have a medication class, so that you can learn more about the meds that people are taking and what it does. Problem solving, communication. We have one on the brain, which seems like how the heck am I going to understand this. And I remember my class I took I had no ideas. The second class when I taught it I started to get it.

But I don't pick it all up, but when I go to the doctor or something or I'm talking to my son's doctor they'll say things like Dopamine and Synapasis (ph.) and these kinds of things and I say oh, yeah, okay, I know. And what you get out of the Family to Family program is like you might not get everything, but you sort of search out what you need and you take that with you.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Right. I know that there are people who have fear of people who might be characterized as those with mental illness. How do you deal with that and the issue of stigma, you know, fighting that discrimination and stigma?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
So you know if somebody at my job or somebody at the school where my kids go or anything like that says something I'm going to speak up, because you know this is a real illness, this is a medical illness that's very treatable and so many people keep it hidden.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
That's right.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Just because É

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
It's why so many are dying.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Yeah. I mean, nobody hides cancer. You don't whisper I have cancer. No. They stand up there and you know they let them know, I'm sick, I need support.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yeah. I wanted to ask É you have other children?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Yes, I have two younger children and then another older daughter.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Okay, so how have all of them, have any of them done the course or how did they seem to handle the situation?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
My daughter didn't take the course, my older one, she didn't take the course.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
And what are the ages of these that you're speaking about?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
26, 8 and 9.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
I see. Okay.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
A big difference there.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yeah.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
But my older daughter, she didn't take the course and she's always, she tried to keep it private for a while and we have at NAMI Mass a walk a every year. And last year she came to the walk and she walked for the first time. And that was like É

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
What a break through.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Yeah, she went there and she actually ran into somebody she knew. And it was funny I was like see, it's everywhere, you don't have to be quiet.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
That's right. That's right.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
And for her to even raise funds for it, you know, have people support her is an even bigger thing, because then she's got to admit what's going on. So in my Family to Family it's taught me people deal with things in different ways. But it's just a course and she's just not ready for that right now. And my younger kids, I've always been very open to them.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Now what does that mean that you've been open? Can you explain to someone who might É

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
I've been open with them about their brother. They know their brother has schizophrenia. He actually lives with my ex-husband around the corner. I would love to have him here, but the chaos of younger kids I think is too much for him. It puts him in a downward spiral.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
I see.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
So they understand. They miss him, particularly my son who likes to see his brother a lot. And he's so much like his brother with the skateboarding and all the things my other son did when he was younger. But he's looking at me now and he's getting sad. He misses his brother because he can't always be there with him.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yes.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
And my older son, you know, understands this, but there's really nothing he can do right now. I just try to let them know. And when they were younger the only way I could explain anything in their minds was to say it's kind of like when you have a cold and you can't taste things, things taste funny, they taste wrong, I say that's kind of like what he has only in his brain. Saying his brain is wrong right now.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
That's a good analogy.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION: Yes, yes. Are there, Karen before we wrap up are there any more aspects of the program that Y would like to share with our listeners? It really sounds like a program that's just making a difference in so many lives. Is there anything more that you would like to tell us about the courses?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
It's life changing. And it supports you. It makes you know that mental illness is a real medical illness that these are treatable diseases. And that you're not alone; you don't have to be quiet, you don't have to hide it. And if you feel like you have to hide it in your neighborhood, you don't have to hide it with us. It's some place with a group of people that we're all going through the same thing.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Right, that's for sure.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
It's a wonderful program which is why I've gotten so far into it. I mean, it helps me, because I feel good when I walk out of there each night.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yes.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
I taught the class and I've done something.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
And made a difference in someone's life.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Can you share something about the cost? Is there a cost involved? Or just how does that work?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
It is free. We have the binders. We have all the course materials. I always put out pens for everybody. It's free. And people bond those 12 weeks. And when it's over you're kind of like oh, what am I going to do on Tuesday nights? You don't want it to end, because you make a lot of good friends.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Okay. And where can we direct our listeners for more information?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
They can go online to www.nami.org and I'm from Massachusetts, so it's www.namimass.org. Or if you don't have a computer they can call the NAMI National Help line and that number is 1-800-950-6264.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Okay. Karen, do you have any final thoughts that you would like to share?

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Just that it's a real illness and you shouldn't be ashamed, we shouldn't be É well, you can be afraid but you got to do it anyway. (LAUGHTER) The more people that speak up the more of a difference it makes. And it helps educate all these people who think it's just a nothing thing, it's all in their head. They need to know this.

And if it takes Family to Family to really help their family members understand what you are going through so you can always recommend it to them. And like I said before you are not alone. There are so many of us out here.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yes, indeed. You are an amazing example of inspiration and a light force and I thank you so much for sharing yourself and that of your family with us today.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Thank you and thank you for letting me tell my story.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
That's the key, everybody's got to share their story with one another so you realize that you're not alone.

KAREN MCGRAVEY-GAJERA ANSWER:
Uh-ha.

TERRIE WILLIAMS QUESTION:
Yes, for the Depression is Real Coalition, I'm Terrie Williams, please join us next time for another edition of the Down and Up Show on Depressionisreal.org. Stay strong. (Music)

Thanks for listening to the Down and Up Show. For more information, log onto www.depressionisreal.org. You can find us there and at i-tunes. And remember stay subscribed. (Music)